Together Villalobos and Loderbauer have chosen and remixed 17 tracks from ECM's vaults for the double album 'Re: ECM', subtly reworking original compositions that range from classical choirs by Russian composer Alexander Knaifel to emotional piano sonatas by Norwegian jazz pianist Christian Wallumrød.

Between Loderbauer's towering modular synthesizer and free-jazz saxophone riffs oozing from white spherical speakers, we sit down for an interview in the pair's cosy studio, located on the premises of Berlin's Berghain club.

An Interview with Ricardo Villalobos and Max Loderbauer

How did each of you spend the last weekend?

Max Loderbauer: I was in Munich at my mum's, all nice and quiet.

Ricardo Villalobos: I was in Detroit, at the Detroit Electronic Music Festival.

It's this contrast of contexts that makes the 'Re: ECM' project immediately appealing: Max Loderbauer, the experimental electronic musician, Ricardo Villalobos, the famous techno DJ, and ECM, Germany's revered new music label...

RV: Our primary concern was to bridge this gap. There is not really a conflict between these worlds, it's just that they don't meet this often. Our second task was to tweak the distribution of frequencies in a way that there was no clash between the acoustic and the electronic.

Was this the main challenge of the project - to join the acoustic and the electronic? Club music is often compressed and maximized, whereas classical music works with quiet and loud passages, with spaces and dynamics.

ML: This is exactly what we aimed for - to give the electronic parts this quality. This is really something we see as a quality in classical music.

RV: We have compressed very little and left a lot of space for the acoustic recordings. We have also tried to maintain the original room sound. Electronic music has rather predefined frequency ranges and only a small amount of room, or room is emulated with bad reverbs. This is ok as an effect but it's no substitute for real room.

Have you recorded any acoustic instruments for Re: ECM or did you just work with electronic instruments and your mixing desk?

ML: We mainly worked with electronics apart from a few percussions that Ricardo recorded.

RV: Snare drums, cymbals, and the like. We recorded those here in the studio.

Who came up with the idea to rework ECM tracks in the first place?

RV: I had frequently mentioned ECM in interviews and used their records in my sets. We've both known ECM for many years before that, but there was one person, Stephan Steigleder [Director Digital Media at Universal Music Classics & Jazz], who actually heard this, on the dance floor, and came up to me saying that this was very interesting and that we should focus on this - perhaps put together an entire night with this kind of music. Eventually he said he could put us in touch with ECM, and just for fun we started working on some pieces based on ECM recordings.

Without the consent of ECM?

RV: Completely without their consent at first. After we had completed the first recording was the first time we talked to someone from ECM, who incidentally called the same day we had finished the recording.

Which track was that?

ML: The Bennie Maupin one ['Rensenada'].

RV: We were enthusiastic since it turned out so nice. Suddenly this person from ECM calls, and I was really exuberant, saying, yes, of course we can make this work.

ML: When we had about five pieces ready, [ECM's founder] Manfred Eicher visited the studio and finally gave us his blessing. Before it was not quite clear if we could use tracks by Arvo Pärt or Keith Jarrett, but in the end Manfred Eicher said that we could use whatever we wanted.

How did you chose the individual pieces and parts you would use?

RV: We were working with a list of around 20 tracks that I have used in my sets, and that could be used without having access to the single tracks of the recording, which are often not available with jazz. Manfred Eicher gave us a lot of impulses as well and we ended up working with Christian Walumrød's new album when he sent it to us. Some pieces didn't work, like the Arvo Pärt one off 'Tabula Rasa' which I played a lot. I noticed that it appeared in commercials and TV shows as well, so we used another one of his pieces. As for the actual work process - we basically sampled and looped the parts we wanted to use and recorded overdubs with electronic instruments.

ML: We also used Audio-To-Midi software to have the original recordings trigger electronic instruments, as well as control the Moog and modular system in real-time via the Kyma interface.

Joining the electronic with the acoustic - was this similar to working the Moritz Von Oswald Trio?

ML: It was quite different since in this case we were working with source material we wanted to transform, while with Moritz there's always a clear foundation of rhythm and bass on top of which we improvise. That's strict live improvisation whereas in this case we first constructed a patch for each track that transformed the source material into something new, basically recording one track a day.

RV: Sometimes we ended up not using something, but as a whole the album was completed in 17 days.

That is quick.

ML: Well, if you turn everything off and on the next day it just doesn't sound the same any more.

RV: It sounds different, it is different - the modular system has a life of its own.

Could you imagine taking the project to another level by working with live musicians?

RV: We had indeed planned this, it's just that we didn't have the time so far. We have produced a lot of tracks and thought to finish with live musicians.

Surely a number of ECM artists would be interested in working with you...

RV: Julia Hülsmann lives here in Berlin, as do Claudio Puntin, clarinettist from the Wolf Jacke Brederode Quartet and drummer Wolfgang Haffner, who releases on ACT - they would all be interested, but it hasn't come to this yet, as we have so many pieces. We have not only been working those pieces for ECM, but also own tracks that are spacious enough to allow for live overdubs. We have actually just decided against doing it this way though...

ML: Or only do it partially this way, since the pieces that we have - by now almost 130 - can be roughly categorized: some are electric jazz, almost be-bop like, then we have ambient pieces and also really experimental stuff. We have enough material for three very different album projects.

Do you have plans to bring 'Re: ECM' to the stage as well?

RV: Sure, if you work only electronically you can realise this live as well. With the ECM material it's difficult though - since we can't invite all the musicians the acoustic parts will come from the computer. It will definitely be different from the album though, especially since we're using the modular system, which is very sensitive.

ML: This way [using loops] it will be about 50% improvisation. If we would be using only live electronics it would in fact be 100% or 90% improvised.

How do you see the dialogue between club culture and classical music?

RV: I think that all areas of music influence each other as soon as contacts are established. I also believe that every style of music, every culture even can be brought into combination with every other culture. It should be a goal to see music as a whole. Within club culture it is common to categorize and define music, which often serves as a way for journalists to simplify matters. These definitions are useful for improving sales of certain genres, but it's important to point out that music should be seen as a single language.

Something you also strive to do with your DJ sets...

RV: Yes, exactly. I definitely try to add some spice to a regular club set.

With this ambition, isn't it painful to see how self-referential most club culture is?

RV: It is certainly painful, but as a DJ you yourself are in control of the situation. There are a few interesting and good DJs who are universally educated and who play a universal range of music. Then there are others who limit themselves to a certain definition of music. Personally I believe its important to remain undefinable. There are a few general categories like house music that can be accepted, but it is important to keep an open mind. This is really a life-long mission, and once you specialise yourself it is hard to catch up. It also comes down to education - what your parents have been playing to you, what influences you have been exposed to by accident.

Have you listened to experimental music early in your lives?

ML: I was completely immersed in music when I was growing up. Music of all directions really. My father was a trained conductor and composer. This was after the war however, and eventually he had to earn money and so he studied economy. My mother was a singer, but with three children she had to give this up as well.

RV: With me it was similar. In my case it was a lot of Latin music, whereas with Max it was naturally a lot of classical music at the beginning - and Bavarian folk music! (laughs)